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by Mike Kavis on Jun. 13, 2008

There are open source tools that can do what Vision do. Open Office has the Draw product. The problem is that at work I need to create the Visio vsd files in order create documents that other people will read and I need to be able to read .vsd files. I have found nothing other then Visio that can do this.

by Devan on Jun. 15, 2008

I'm sorry, but I think the biggest hurdle that prevents adoption of software like this over MS products is the interface experience.

I am sure that Dia is a very powerful piece of software with perhaps features that squash Visio in many places, but it is plain FUGLY, looking like a circa Win3.1 app.

A fancier interface may slow things down somewhat, and will result in a bloated install, but if you put Dia and Visio up side by side and showed it to a group of people, there is no doubting which one they will choose.

by Chris on Jun. 16, 2008

Interface looks so 1996.

by Hendrik on Jun. 16, 2008

Indeed, I totally agree with that. The major problem of many open-source applications today is no longer their lack of functionality, but their inconsistent and chaotic user interface. This is as true for Dia as it is for GIMP. Luckily, for most application niches, there are already alternatives ready. GIMP can be (at least on windows) substituted by Paint.NET, instead of Dia one may use XFig (which looks like a 1982 GEM application, granted, but in fact has a very powerful and intuitive interface once you get used to it). For certain tasks, Inkscape (one of my favorites in my everyday work) might also be an alternative.

Also do not underestimate non-free, but low cost software. At work I rely on Concept Draw 7 instead of Visio which offers almost the same functionality, but comes at a much lower price and with a support for standards like UML2 which is way better than the one found in Visio.

by an anonymous user on Jun. 16, 2008

I'm sorry - anybody that has worked intensely with Visio will agree that Dia is nowhere near Visio.

Look even at this sentence from Dia's project website: "Dia is roughly inspired by the commercial Windows program 'Visio', though more geared towards informal diagrams for casual use."

Dia is fugly, doesn't support Visio file formats etc.

This is really sad because we have been looking at open source diagramming software to replace Visio in our company because Visio is quite expensive if you have to license it for everybody. But we just couldn't find a replacement.

People either suggest Dia - which just wouldn't cut the mustard or some vector drawing program.

I think there is space for a descent diagramming open source project. Preferable with lots of lgpl libraries so other non-diagramming programs can have diagramming capabilities added to them,

by an anonymous user on Jun. 16, 2008

I used it some time ago.Aside from its UI, it is very slow.Compare it with visio, you can reach the same point.

by Raghu Chetan on Jun. 16, 2008

Beats the heck out of paying for Visio - unless ofcourse you're using a "cracked" version :)

by Lee Davies on Jun. 16, 2008

Persnally I use Dia for most of my project work, it has its quirks but I find it more useful than Visio.

I code in a predominantly MS environment (VS.NET and SQL server) btw.

by Joe Mendis on Jun. 16, 2008

Another really useful app to use in flow charts is the FreeMind app. Check it out: http://ostatic.com/21361-software-opensource/freemind

It is much more light weight than Visio especially for brainstorms and idea mapping.

by an anonymous user on Jun. 16, 2008

I evaluated Dia, along with other "cheap" alternatives. Dia had issues withcreating nested loops; text boxes grew when you added text, but didn't shrink when you deleted text; dragging corner of text box to resize didn't maintain aspect ratio; snap to grid didn't align connection points; adding connectors was awkward.

by Myke on Jun. 16, 2008

Come on people...enough with the whole fugly thing. The screenshot above does not actually represent what it really looks like. That just happens to be an ugly system theme. This is what it looks like with my current theme >> http://s3.supload.com/files/default/Desktopper.png.

It's not the greatest but still better than the screenshot above.

by Myke on Jun. 16, 2008

Sorry, this link should work. I didn't know that free image host was so sensitive.

http://s3.supload.com/files/default/Desktopper.png

by Myke on Jun. 16, 2008

Alright, I'm sorry people, apparently that image host sucks because it keeps giving a hotlink message even though I used the "shareable" url. Let's try this one more time else I give up...can a site admin please delete my first two messages?

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs128&d=08251&f=desktopper818.png

by an anonymous user on Jun. 19, 2008

What do yo mean the GUI is ugly? You are probably looking at the Unix GUI. Take a look at the Windows GUI.

Microsoft is beginning to feel the pinch from Open Source software. That is why they are scrambling to reorganize their business model. They are gearing up to becoming more of a software services company than a software development company.

by an anonymous user on Jul. 16, 2008

Best one I have used is Umbrello. But then I don't recall ever using Visio.

And to those complaining Dia doesn't support Visio files: show the format specifications to the Dia developers and they will add it. "Visio is the only good one because it supports Visio format"? well Duh. That's what vendor lock-in is about and you fell on it.

by an anonymous user on Jul. 22, 2008

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by Ntropia on Sep. 30, 2008

I currently use Dia under Linux in my work, but I have to say that the interface is unfriendly in many cases, beside the oldish style (that's not a problem at all).

The text management is painful, while the object selection is counter-intuitive, sometimes. Managing groups properties is impossible, so if results can be comparable, the efforts to produce them are *way* bigger than configuring Wine to use Visio.

At least with the current version.

by an anonymous user on Dec. 27, 2008

>> show the format specifications to the Dia developers and they will add it.

This is not true.

VSD format was reverse engineered already, suitable part of the result was re-used by Apache POI.

Nor Dia, nor OO.org, nor Kivio were interested to add it.

They all know that they suck even with support of VSD.

by Jim on Jan. 19, 2009

I'm sorry, but Dia IS NOT EVEN CLOSE to a substitute for Visio. Unless I am missing something, it is both ugly and feature poor, although free.

by Thompson@Cheap computer on Feb. 16, 2009

Well i think it's good as have always received positive feedback on it and i think everyone has a different requirement so the best one is the one that suits you.

by seant on Feb. 19, 2009

Does Dia support the capability of importing data base designs from popular RDMS's?

Does anyone know of an open source and/or free app that will do this?

by seant on Feb. 19, 2009

oops...

RDBMS's

by jerry on Apr. 27, 2009

I just downloaded it and its running on my vista... the interface isn't bad at all-- don't know what all the fuss is about.

by jerry on Apr. 27, 2009

actually, take that back..i can't put text directly into objects. if you're used to visio this will be too frustrating. oh well. it's pretty though!

by Computer Service Toronto on Jul. 01, 2009

Dia is the most reliable open source software

http://www.a2zpc.ca

by oh..dia on Aug. 05, 2009

Dia is poor mans tool. Shapes do not accept text. Connectors can't have text. If you group connector with label it looses its connecting abilities.

... and that is not all its limits. It simply sux.

I have worked with Visio for several years before, now we use Dia for 3 years in our office. Comparing those two - Dia is still far far away and sux. Sometimes I just get my mac and jump on OmniGrafle demo for simple diagrams, it saves time.

For all blagh blagh.. abled. We are not windows guys, we are not apple fans. In our office we use OpenSuse linux as desktop machines, code web, and we all here are shell friendly :). But Dia still sux. It takes too much time thinking about how to draw, than thinking what to draw.

It's pitty, as under linux there is no other good choise for diagraming. And I'm not talking about any special diagrams - they all are partially implemented - I gues, that is what makes them special :) Dia sux here too.

Sorry dia, but you suck.

by Resume Builders on Oct. 07, 2009

evrything works up in own sweet ime you just need to have patience then youcan surely wait and watch.

by Mike Tagg on Nov. 12, 2009

Oh no it Isn't................being able to rotate symbols or images is a fundamental requirement of any drawing package, I am afraid until Dia can do this it is quite DIRE

by JDS on Dec. 22, 2009

I've never used Visio, but I have used Dia. If you've used Dia and are curious if it is even close to the capability of Visio, answer it yourself by checking out the Visio features tour. A video at the Visio website: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/visio/

Clcik on "See it in action"

There is NO WAY Dia can do any of that stuff.

Now, I'm a Linuxophile and I do not use MS products anywhere. But Visio does look pretty slick. Dia is not slick. Dia is clunky.

by an anonymous user on Aug. 25, 2010

The only thing that sucks is the original article - in fact, mostly the title, but also parts of the text. Dia was never meant to be competition for Visio.

Visio is a strange mixture of a diagramming program and a weak vectorial graphics app. I can see no use for things like rotating a stencil or the like when actually doing serious diagramming. Using a crossbred of two beasts on one hand makes things harder to learn, on the other hand lets you skimp away on the serious but boring part and waste time with gold-plating your diagrams.

OOo Draw in its latest incarnation does much of what Visio can do, although not everything - code export from UML is one such missing feature, but there are probably others too. Here's an article demonstrating how you can create shapes for OOo draw (aka stencils in Visio): http://searjeant.blogspot.com/2009/03/eip-shapes-for-openoffice-draw.htm....

I'm just guessing that Visio's file format, although _partially_ reverse engineered, was not attractive for integrating in open source, is that it sucks. I never saw the reverse engineered spec, but I looked at the MS document containing the ODF standard. It way beyond sucks. I have no reason to believe Visio has a better or worse file format than the other MS Office apps.

Dia's sole purpose is to be simple, and allow one to draw informal, quick, throw-away diagrams. It's shining for this purpose. The learning curve is almost nonexistent, it is fast and easy on the hardware, and doesn't do what other, more heavyweight packages do, like getting in your way due to some UML2 or ER diagram specs - like both Umbrello and Visio.

I don't do diagrams all day long. I mostly do code, but once in a while I also have to create documents or diagrams, as part of specs. Therefore, Visio is overkill for me. But I never had any need for diagramming not met by Dia, OOo Draw or Freemind. So I wouldn't say there's open source competition for Visio, I'd say there's a full-featured replacement available for Visio, although possibly not by a single app.

There's one more thing about Dia that I like. Essentially, it provides the stencils and the layout engine. Its format is open and simple. Whoever cares, can easily integrate Dia as the graphical frontend to whatever code generator/reverse engineering script he needs. Do that with Visio, then do the comparison again. After all, neither Dia nor Visio are meant for home users scared that the PC might bite, so IMO the capability to integrate with other apps should be important.

As for the MS-free desktop mentioned in the article (I'm aware that two years have passed since the article was written): I'm on Windows at work. There are at least 20 apps running on my desktop right now. Nevertheless, besides the OS and Windows Explorer, I use almost no other MS software, and no software not available on Linux. I even replaced the default Windows games to play while compiling with Simon Tatham's puzzles collection. Dolphin/KDE on Windows isn't quite there, but once Dolphin will see all drives plus network on Windows, and provide a shell panel too, I'll probably leave explorer behind. The only thing keeping me on Windows is the admin, who doesn't want to manage both Windows and Linux on workstations. Even Lotus Notes is available for Linux nowadays. Most enterprise apps we use are either Notes apps or web apps, no proprietary clients here. So a MS-free desktop is no longer utopic, or expensive, or in other ways impossible or inconvenient. Anybody sticking to Windows/MS Office is either ignorant, has a large or huge batch of legacy apps which are Windows-bound to care for, is locked into the Windows development world, or simply has too much money to spend.

by Sid Krom on Nov. 02, 2010

I just saw example that shows how to script diagram generation using VBA and Visio 2007 http://www.isrcomputing.com/knowledge-base/40-code-example/178-how-to-dr...

by Avery on Mar. 20, 2011

I agree with some of the commenters above that Dia is clunky and doesn't have features that Visio does. But seriously, who needs 90% of the stuff that's in Visio. But Dia didn't do it for me so I've moved to http://www.lucidchart.com. Lucid is online, robust but intuitive and has Visio import.

by chriswww on Jun. 20, 2011

Well...if you compare visio to something more recent and decent (inkscape or omnigraffle come to mind) than visio looks (and is) soooo 90's.

i work with visio as well as inkscape, omnigraffle, dia, graphviz, etc etc depending on situation. at moment i need to come up with script to autodocument some php code only using dia, and finding it hard to locate the xml format....but at least it is there (somewhere on net) unlike visio, which is manual input by hand only...or scripting it with vba = really bad idea.

MS do have an occasional good thought or two...but if only those would integrate/scale with other (non-MS) technologies in an enterprise. MS answer to scalability/integration with non-MS systems = This is a dead end. But not all is lost, at last IE9 is starting svg support.

by gumuruh on Aug. 11, 2011

i tought DIA software could handle VSD file,

hmmmm.... just a dream perhaps.

by Senthil on Sep. 11, 2011

There are a number of SVG editing tools, including some which are browser/javascript based. Since SVG by itself is quite limitless in its capabilities and you can pretty much get any SVG icon you like off the internet, you are all set. Besides the XML file is small and can be customized by hand or every generated for diagrams that might require some repetabilty. Inkscape is one such SVG editing tool. Believe there are some SVG editors that allow for online collobration as well - something VISIO does not. So, go SVG and forget proprietary format.

by an anonymous user on Sep. 15, 2011

I find DIA seriously lacking and quite user unfriendly because it's quite buggy. Things you would expect (and are there in visio) simply don't work.

by an anonymous user on Mar. 07, 2012

VSD is the proprietary file format of MS Visio and still hasn't been reverse engineered. So if anyone needs specifically for VSD-compability, MS Visio is so far the only way. The newest format VSX is much better since it's based on XML. As of Dia itself - marvellous especially for the price of 0. :) The problem with MS products is that they are closed source. Yes, this protects the property of MS but also is a no go for people who would like to improve their products. Let's take MS Project for example - f@cked up calender (those who have worked with it know what I'm talking about), f@cked up MPM, CMP, PERT etc. You can't put 'max time' but only 'min time' in MPM, although the standard says you can. Which leads to the believe that internally it's all converted to CMP, which allows only 'min time'. This ultimately limits your project planning. Not to mention a couple of more serious problems that are present for many years, bothered many users and are still NOT fixed.

The only really really good thing about MS Visio is the integration with the MS Office. It would be a bitter surprise if it wasn't so. XD

Dia is perfect if you don't need to do some huge diagram with a lot of complexity in it. It's interface is more than simple (a main menu, a dropdown list with MANY sets for various diagrams and a panel of the elements of the currently selected set). One has to be an idiot (pardon my expression) not to be able to start drawing diagrams right away. With MS Visio you need to fight with the settings and menus. Which is only good if you know that your diagram needs things that only Visio can provide.

by an anonymous user on Mar. 18, 2012

Indeed open source has lousy interfaces.

That's because - generally - programmers don't like to code slick UI's - they do so when someone makes it mandatory.

by Derek on May. 11, 2012

"VSD is the proprietary file format of MS Visio and still hasn't been reverse engineered."

Actually... it has. The latest version of Draw in LibreOffice 3.5 incorporates that ability, thanks to some outstanding coding. See http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-5-new-features-and-fixes/